Top Gear tonight and the best roadster is....

[Justin]

not, the ugly untalented Z3 nor the stylish but lacking in substance TT nor the polished but unwieldy SLK nor the frenetic Honda S2000, but the Boxster again.

Can mainstream manufacturers which have to sell bread and butter (or breadvan like the Z3 Coupe) models actually make a decent sports car?

BMW don't seem to be able to do it. Mercedes haven't really tried. Honda and Mazda do a decent job, but that's all.

And another thing, sports cars based on saloons seem to be lacking. Isit possible to build a decent sports car which has a bread and butter model as its base?

[WhipLash]

I totally forgot that Top Gear was on last night, and only tuned in towards the end when they has narrowed it down to the S2000 and Boxster, but I did see all the cars reviewed lined up towards the end. Overall for *** appeal I would give it to the TT Roadster :cool:, and I don't think too many people would disagree with that assumption. I did think, however, that the Boxster looked better then the Honda, and didn't agree with TG voting the Honda better in that regard. I suppose with the fact that Porsche isn’t a manufacturer of mainstream saloon cars likes Honda, BMW etc, they have the background and engineering expertise to build a solid sports car, which stands heads and shoulders above the rest. How anyone can pick a TT roadster over a Porsche is beyond me, maybe they're simply a rich hairdresser looking for some attention? ;)

So if it were my money (i.e. if I had that much to spend), I’d be driving the Boxster http://www.eforecourt.com/UBB/smoke.gif. So the painful question remains, how much can a good second hand one fetch here in Ireland? Go on, make me sick http://www.eforecourt.com/UBB/sick.gif

[BeCos]

Well if I were buying a performance convertible, it would have to have more than four cylinders, and I just dont like the Audi TT (too feminine).

Also and important issue is the fact that a lot of people would need a four seater car, unless they can afford more than one car.

My personal choice ......... actually I was going to say an Alfa Spider, but they don't offer the V6 and it allegedley suffers from pronounced scuttle shake, so I think I'd try for an M3 Convertible or a TVR........yes definitely a TVR!! :)

[This message has been edited by BeCos (edited 19 May 2000).]

[Anders]

Doesn't the Boxster and the new 911 share a lot of parts? I vaguely remember that that was part of the "business case" for the Boxster. If that is the case I would imagine that Porsche designed the platform for the 911 so you're getting a lot of car in the Boxster for that reason.

It's also quite possible that the design brief in Mercedes and BMW is not to create a Porsche beater but to make stylish boulevard cruisers, which is what most convertibles are. A lot of convertibles, if not most, are driven by women and I don't think women tend to value cornering abilities and chassis rigidity that highly. If it looks good that's usually enough.

[Justin]

Secondhand Boxsters start at £40k or so. Still better than a new TT convertible, IMHO.

The Boxster platform was designed from scratch with the intention of being a mid engined open car. It does share bits and pieces with the 911 (not as many as the identical headlights would indicate), but the 911 platform is rear engined still, and quite different in a lot of details.

I agree - Mercedes and BMW make boulevard cruisers, not sports cars. But Honda and Mazda and Toyota seem to be able to do a proper job, based on designs which have only one intention, to be an open topped sports car. Is there any car out there which is derived from from another more everyday model which makes the grade? I can't think of any.

[Anders]

BMW M5 perhaps, assuming that a sports car can have a roof.

I think it is acceptable that Merc do boulevard cruisers, but the Z3 is unacceptable coming from BMW. But it still sells, so they clearly know what they are doing. Milking the brand.

The Japanese do come up with some pretty focused cars on occassion. If they were priced right in Ireland they would be more of a force to reckon with.

[Justin]

The M5 is an excellent high performance saloon derived from the very good 5 series. The same could be said of the XJR or the E55.

But has any manufacturer taken a saloon/hatch platform and created a proper sports car? (which doesn't have to be a convertible, in my view)

[Anders]

How about that mid-engined Clio coming up? I wonder how much it actually shares with the regular Clio mind you.

I'm not sure how you're defining a sports car, but isn't a Subaru P1 a sports car? There are probably a couple of similar Japanese sports cars derived from a more mundane product, like the Celica GT4, and the Skyline GTS-R (or whatever the exact name of it is). There are high performance versions of the Ford Mustang also, the Cobra for instance.

[Justin]

Didn't we have a thread about this on MWeb? some time ago? OK, here goes, it has to be reasonably fast, it has to handle with precision and deliver steering feedback and driver enjoyment as the primary engineering focus, it can't be a saloon, it has to be a coupe or open top two seater (chopped BMW 3 series etc. don't count) and it doesn't matter if it is practical at all. This exclued many fine sports saloons, but I think this is justified.

Any other criteria?

[Anders]

Did you see the latest Car? What's his name who works for McLaren who writes for them, Gordon Murray perhaps? He had an article about what is a sports car. He claims that he often gets asked the question what makes a sports car a sports car and his standard answer is that is has to be light. I didn't really read the article in detail but it seemed to conclude that the Toyota MR2 fits the bill.

I personally don't really care how people label cars, if it's good it's good.

[Josh B]

I have to say that the new MR2 is only beautiful, the Audi TT I won't say no to either as for the porsche boxster, the 1st time I saw one of them it was in York Pennsylvanina in '98, I nearly blew my l**d. :D

I'm not fussy, anything with a soft top would be great, if only we could get the weather to use it.... now thats the main problem :(

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See Ya!!

Josh B