dirt cheap performance car

[Justin]

I may need to acquire a 4 door saloon for very small money indeed sometime in the next year or so. Now the rational thing to do is get a 1990 Carina or something. But assume insurance isn't a problem (a large assumption, but indulge me) and assume that fuel economy doesn't matter (12 mile round trip per day, even at 12mpg, a bit more than busfare).

What would you get?

Go ahead Paul, suggest some retrosheds. I will listen in an openminded fashion, provided you can say that your suggestion is both reliable and is a bit more exciting than the average runabout,and not just because it is older than a Carina.

[WhipLash]

I think I'd choose a Honda Civic Vti. OK so the Vtech is not everyone’s cup of tea, but I certainly love to rev the sh1te out of engines, so this engine would suit me down to the ground. Much more reliable then most other cars, Honda maybe even THE most reliable make you can buy. Will also propel you past the standard 1.4/1.6/1.8 16v cars like Golfs, Focus, Astras etc with ease using that delicious 160bhp, while enjoying 0-60 in about 8 seconds :). You say MPG isn't an issue, yet you'll get around 35mpg combined from this car. Can anyone do better than this? http://www.eforecourt.com/UBB/smoke.gif

[BrianF]

Sorry Whip, but theres no way a VTI Civic would pass a 16v Golf GTI. I had one and a mate had a VTI 3door Civic - I left him for dead everytime he tried. Another mate had a RSTurbo Fiesta and I left him sitting too http://www.eforecourt.com/UBB/groovy.gif

Justin - how much are you willing to spend?
& does it have to be a saloon??
have a look at a 205 GTI. I've just sold the Cossie & bought a 1.9 205 GTI. These are cars that can impress....if you can live with the Tacky interiour!!

brian...

[WhipLash]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sorry Whip, but theres no way a VTI Civic would pass a 16v Golf GTI. I had one and a mate had a VTI 3door Civic - I left him for dead everytime he tried. Another mate had a RSTurbo Fiesta and I left him sitting too <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AFAIK, the Golf GTI does 0-62 in 8.5 seconds. It’s a pretty close call, but maybe its just that you were the better driver?! Anyway, I was talking about standard (ie naturally aspirated) 16 valvers, not turbos. Take the normal Golf 1.6 16v for example, it does a reported 0-62 in 10.9 seconds, almost 3 seconds slower. I’d imagine that a 1.6 Focus would be similar too.

I'm not sure if you can pick up a Vti for 'very small money', but I'd say a Jap import should shave a bit off the price.


[This message has been edited by WhipLash (edited 21 June 2000).]

[Junior]

Whip
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I was talking about standard (ie naturally aspirated) 16 valvers, not turbos
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Show me any Golf GTI that comes with a Turbo as Standard besides the MK4 .. hmmmmmmm

You could always try and go stealth like maybe Cossie or how about something Germanic like a 525 or Riceboy ish like a Mazda Xedos V6 ? Also what about that Italian .. theres that big Alfa that I can't remember the name of it's a 2.5 V6 again is it a 166 it's like not a new model .. hmm the number escapes me ...

------------------
Junior
junior@eForecourt.com

Junior's Web (http://juniorsweb.hypermart.net)

[This message has been edited by Junior (edited 21 June 2000).]

[WhipLash]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Show me any Golf GTI that comes with a Turbo as Standard besides the MK4 .. hmmmmmmm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh duh, silly me! http://www.eforecourt.com/UBB/embarass.gif ;)

[Justin]

Nope.Has to be a 4 door saloon, preferably £2,500 or less and large. I was thinking of the Alfa 164 too. A cossie would be nice, but realistically, a £2,500 one would be a bodyshell and probably a crashed one. I used to have a 205 GTi (only a 1.6, though) and yes it was a wonderful (but dreadfully unreliable) car, but it doesn't fit the bill here.

[Anders]

If you like to make your BMW parts supplier rich, get an old BMW. When did the previous shape 5-series come out first, end of the 80s? You might get one of them within your budget and they don't look too out of date either and drive pretty well.

Buy & Sell's yer only man. At that price range we're talking some fairly unwanted cars so you can probably haggle down the price a good bit.

[Tony]

I figure its going to be quite a challenge to find a good performance car that won't cost you a fortune in repairs for the budget you quote. An old Alfa won't be the most reliable, and I'm sure you won't want something that will let you down. How about a Volvo? High mileage Volvos can go for a song, are built like tanks, you'll have plenty of space within, and they'll offer a good punch of power because of their turbo. For example, there’s a Volvo 940 for sale in Buy and Sell. Its has full electrics, leather etc for £2,750. You can pay slightly more for one with an NCT certificate which will be valid for at least 1.5 years, considering the NCT only started in January. The other obvious alternative, as Anders has pointed out, would be an old BMW. Another example from Buy and Sell is a 325i Touring (an estate I know, but sure why not?), going for £2,195. Browse Buy and Sell and I'm sure you'll pick a great performance bargain. And none of this Jap Crap either :rolleyes:.

[Sean]

Opel Omega or Senator, straight 6 if possible. Less obvious than a BMW and cheaper. 3000GSI rare but surely good fun.

[BeCos]

Yeaaah nice one Sean. The straight six Opels are a great engine especially in 24V guise, although you wont get one for that budget. What about a Vectra 2000 16 valve??
The original one which was quite decent. Simple to mantain and good on fuel, watch out for porous cylinder heads and leaky steeting racks though.

[Junior]

Having been at the classic car show the weekend and seen a few things over the weekend heres a few more for the list

A) Audi 100 2.5 se
B) Jaguar XJ6 or any old classy Jag fer that matter
C) A Jap Import Shogun or maybe a McLaren Tuned Trooper ??

[PaulKanters]

Performance is perhaps a big word, but here are some other possible candidates that would have been forgotten by now, but could be picked up dirt cheap... Please note that I am in no way commenting on reliability or usability, just the mere fact that they are "fast 4 door limousines"

Alfa Romeo Guillietta 2.0 or the GTV 2.5 V6
Audi 200 Turbo or non turbo (or even Quattro!!!)
BMW 535i or the bigger engined 7 series...(like the 745i)
Citroen CX Turbo2 !!
Mercedes 300SE from the seventies (the 6.9 litre V8) or any of the early eighties 500SE's
Opel Senator or Monza
Rover SD1 3500 Vitesse (if you can find one...)
Saab 900 Turbo

[Justin]

Do you know if any of these (or indeed other forgotten heroes, such as the Alfa 164 Cloverleaf, Ford Scorpio Cosworth, Lancia Thema 8.32 (lhd only?), Renault 25 V6/Turbo, Fiat Croma Turbo, Opel Senator 3.0i 24v etc.) which are reputed to be even a bit reliable?

Is a 1990 Lexus cheap yet? A perfect compromise - Toyota reliability with a smooth V8 and total comfort, if a bit wallowy in corners. Could this ever be a "classic"?

Was the BMW 745 a turbo 3.2 and only available in lhd (a lhd one parks near me)? Is the Thema 8.32 so rare as to be unavailable and only in lhd and does it shed expensive parts on a daily basis? What would one of these (a Ferarri engined old saloon - delicious) cost here?

[PaulKanters]

Reliability can be a problem. Dirt cheap usually goes hand in hand with dodgy Service history and maintenance. This equals to Dodgy car !!

However, because those cars would generally go very cheap, the very very best ones of that model are still going for good value, and those are the cars you should be looking for: good service history, few owners, low mileage, etc...
You can then be sure that you're on a cracker, but avoid at all costs the ropey, super cheap ones, because you'll be cursing your way down to the breaker yard very quickly.

The 164's are fairly sorted, as are the Senators and the Thema's, but avoid the Croma and the Renault.
The Mercs are excellent value, as are the Saab 900's. Extremely reliable for a fraction of the cost.

The Lancia Thema 8.32 is very hard to get, and only in LHD form. There is one currently for sale in the UK for IRP13,000. And then you need to add VRT!! Not exactly dirt cheap, and forget about cheap maintenance, as you don't want your Joe Bloke from the corner workshop to get his hands dirty on that finely tuned Ferrari engine...so expect big maintenance bills. Better to go for Lancia Thema 16v Turbo!!! Higly underrated, fast, powerful and luxurious saloon!

[BrianF]

Sorry,
Havent been back for a while!!

Whip,
A Mk2 Golf GTI 16v (1.8) should do 0-62 in 7.9 Secs. An 8v is 8.5secs, with the 8v possibly bieng the more reliable car.

I still think a 16v (Mk2) would leave a 1.5 VTI Sitting. A 1.6 SiR would have a better hope, although, not much. The 16v Golf Revs just as hard, and loves it just as much as the civic's VTI!!

You could get a good clean 91 8v for £2250 on B&S.

Brian