The 147 is too bloody Heavy

[ivo]

After all the fuss and all the promises , it turns out that the 147 is actually too heavy and is let down in the one area you thought you could bank on Alfa - performance.
In terms of cabin Quality and interior/exterior style, it has supassed the Focus and even the Golf -dare I say it while handling is on par with the Ford.
However, some recent tests has shown it to be a little beer bellied and, hence, the performance figures are poorer than expected.
Maybe if they had taken a leaf out of Audi's book and experimented with light-weight materials, they could hve re-written the standards for small to medium Family hatches.

[Justin]

Yes, and what a shame that is. Everyone is trying to be "silicone damped grab handlesesq" just like VW, and putting on weight as a result. That a 150bhp hatch is only capable of the Alfa's performance figures is really a bit underachieving (the 156 with 5 bhp more hits 60 in 8.5 or so, I think).

Overall though, I prefer the portly but nice and nice sounding 147 to the old rusty rattletraps falling apart that Alfa used to make, and I'd take it over a VW Golf anyday. So a qualified well done, Alfa.

Then again it is cheaper than an A3 which uses more expensive lighter materials, so you get what you pay for, which is a better car for less, in the case of the 147. Wonder what the residuals will be like, though.

[ivo]

In order to take Sales from the Golf and Focus, the 147 will have to come with some grade of 1.4 engine.
The performance of the 1.6's that we've read about doesnt bode well for such a scenario.

That leaves Alfa possibly competing with the likes of the Audi A3 and maybe even the BMW Compact.
Not the biggest market sector in Ireland by any means.

However, the Price will make all the difference.
A competetive price coupled with the cars good looks could tempt a few of the fashion conscious (e.g. those who sent sales of the Pug 206 rocketing on looks alone.)

[WhipLash]

And don't forget that there’s a brand new Pug 307 expected next year, which will be in the same class too. I just hope that Peugeot don't make the same dreadful mistake as the 607 :sick:.

The absence of a 1.4 powerplant will indeed affect sales to some extent. But don’t forget what happened with the initial release of the 156 - 6 month long waiting lists ‘cause there wasn't enough cars available. Also there wasn't a 1.6 engine initially available in Ireland, where such engines seem to score highly in this country (eg 1.6 Passat). Expect to see a 1.4 engine at some stage, and when/if this occurs the 147 will be everywhere, just like the 156.

It will also be interesting to see if there are any annoying niggling problems with the initial 147 itself. Remember the famous rattle in the earlier 156’s dash that took Alfa dealers ages to figure out? IMHO its usually better to wait at least one year before buying a new model thats just arrived on the market.

[BeCos]

I was at the launch last night and this car is beautiful to behold. in terms of quality it surpases the 156, the Golf and the A3. It is slightly bigger than the A3 and the fit and finish is flawless.

The prices start at IR£16,800 for the 1.6 T-Spark, then £17,400 for the Sportivo, the 1.6 Lusso is £17,800 and finally the 2.0 Selespeed is £22,200;. All these prices seem dear as they are Open Book prices too with precious little discount. However with such a high spec it does sseem well worth it and that was the general opinnion of everybody who saw it. Go check it out, in the meantin=me here's the low down;

All models have as standard,

ABS,Electronic Brake Distribution,Anti Slip regulator,Fire prevention system,Follow me home lights,Air Con,CD Player, Leather steering wheel,remote C/locking, electric Windows, 6 Airbags, foglights, Alloy wheels.

The Sportivo gains 3rd rear head rest, centre armrest, luggage net and moves form 15" to 17" alloys.

The Lusso gets 16" Alloys, Auto Bizone air Con, cruise control, steering wheel radio controls, multiplay CD.

The 2.0 Selespeed gets all the above with its own unique 17" wheels, Vehicle dynamic Control and leather interior.

[Junior]

Is there any idea when the local dealers will be having their launch days ?

[WhipLash]

The PRICES...:eek:...my God!!!

IMHO £16,800 for the entry model of a ‘small family hatch’ is asking a bit much. Sure you get a lot of standard equipment that are only optional extras on other similar (and older) models, but as new models come out over time each one is more advanced than its rivals and will have better/extra equipment. Also with the fact that you cannot get a cash discount on the Open Book prices makes it even worse.

I'd also be worried by heavy depreciation at that price after another year or two, especially if a 1.4 come on the market. Although if Alfa limit the numbers imported then demand will keep the prices higher then should be.

So BeCos did you take her for a spin or was it just a showroom browse? Also, did you read your PM on the 147 images????



[Edited by WhipLash on 1st December 2000 at 11:30]

[BeCos]

The car doesn't really compare to its predeccesors or to the Astra / Focus type of car. View it as an Audi A3 competitor and it makes sense. This is also the size and shape of the car. It isn't a small family hatchback its a niche sporting hatchback. Demand will far exceed the supply for at least 12 months and I reckon depreciation will be minimal. You really need to go and see this car and sit in it, feel the quality etc.

There wont be a 1.4 litre. I will be driving it early next week so I'll let ya know what I think. I think all the dealer actually have two each at this stage so call them.

Iread my PM but I've not done anything about it yet. i'll sort it on Monday. Thanks BTW !

[WhipLash]

Originally posted by BeCos
The car doesn't really compare to its predeccesors or to the Astra / Focus type of car. View it as an Audi A3 competitor and it makes sense. This is also the size and shape of the car. It isn't a small family hatchback its a niche sporting hatchback.

A 'niche sporting hatchback'??? From the reports of the 1.6 version, I wouldn't think so. And how does the 2.0 litre compare to the current hatch champion the Clio? Now that’s the current benchmark hot-hatch the 147 has to beat.

BTW, I saw a 147 over the weekend at my local supermarket. Its was an early 00 D garage reg plate (being green in colour). The guy driving it was using it to do his shopping!!!! :p

BTW, this model was in silver, and IMHO the colour doesn't make the car look all that hot. Now that I've seen it in the flesh I'm not really that impressed by its looks. And that rear end - it looks like the arse of a Pug 206! JMHO, of course ;)

[BeCos]

The term "Sporting" means that the emphasis is of a sporting nature, it's not meant to be an out and out performance car, and it's not a "hot hatch either". Still I would love to see what the TV programmes make of it!! Oh yeah I've seen a silver one and it isn't great at all. One of the ones I saw was a grey metallic with 17" wheels and it looked super!

[Junior]

Originally posted by WhipLash

BTW, I saw a 147 over the weekend at my local supermarket. Its was an early 00 D garage reg plate (being green in colour). The guy driving it was using it to do his shopping!!!! :p


That Reg plate was green or the car was ???

I wondered about the Sporting tag .. 17" Alloys versus the more expensive Lusso on 16" Alloys

Why though does a sporting model come loaded with stuff like Air Con which is far from the sporting theme that Alfa wants to portray. ?

[WhipLash]

Originally posted by Junior

That Reg plate was green or the car was ???

[/B]

The front reg plate was grey/black and the rear was green! :rolleyes: ;)

[Junior]

Sounds like Garage plates to me ...

but anyways what about these extras on the sporting is it just sporting by nature or just in name ??

[BeCos]

The name Lusso is used for the more luxurious cars and the ride quality is probably better with the 16" wheels as oppossed to the grippier 17" ones.

The "theme" is Sporting for the Sportivo models, like the way VW put a GTI tag on their Sporting Golf even though we all know it's as far from a real GTI as you can currently get!!

The reason the standard equipment is as it is,is because the public demand it that way. But as Toad says will there be a cheaper one once innitial demand is satisfied??

[Junior]

Originally posted by BeCos

The reason the standard equipment is as it is,is because the public demand it that way.

So in that case the sportier Alfa drivers demand Air Con ?? IN this Country ?? Get real I'd rather have less weight,more power and a lesser cost.

[Toad]

Sunroof or Air-con ????

I've had both & prefer aircon

I remember been in dublin one very hot day (remember when we got those!) and I had the windows up in a black car & I could see everyone wondering how I wasn't melting :)

Sunroof's are a waste. get a convertable if that's what you want.

[Justin]

On my old Subaru Impreza, the aircon would cut out if maximum welly was applied, and I think most "sporting" models with aircon have a similar feature. I had a previous car with both a sunroof and aircon - I never bothered with the sunroof. If you're worried about the performance effect of weight of aircon, firstly that is quite sad, and secondly, ditch passengers or your clothes or something.

I was just reading the report in Autocar on a comparsion of the Audi A3, Ford Focus 2.0 and the Alfa 147 (which the Ford won!) and interestingly, while the Ford was much cheaper, speccing it up to Alfa level would make it more expensive, and I kinda know which would be a better depreciation bet, Ford with big engine and lots of extras or Alfa with "extras" built into the price.

I'd sacrifice the sporting "purity" for aircon anyday. Or you could get a Caterham 7 if you are that pure.

[Junior]

Justin,
Unfortunately I'm not that sad that I'd worry about the weight of Air Con, it was just a general comment on the car itself. One has to consider that the Alfa is little heavier than the Golf. Obviously for those of us that have never used aircon it looks like it is a must from now on ... global warming and all that.

[Edited by Junior on 6th December 2000 at 09:12]

[BeCos]

My wifes car has aircon and now we are spoiled.....I couldn't dream of buying a new car without it!!

I wonder how much a sunroof weighs in comparison to aircon. I've always had sunroofs and I can't remember ever opening the thing back!!

What IS the weight of the Golf Gti Vs the 147 2.0.