Old Bangers!

[WhipLash]

Did anyone see Driven last night? They had a special feature on called 'Bangernomics - The economics of
driving bangers explained'.

So what was it all about? It was about the art of shopping around for an old quality banger of say 10 years old, buying it for very little money indeed and driving it into the ground. That way one can get a very well spec'ed car that would otherwise be out of reach.

I know there are a couple of members here that have either thought about buying such a car, or run one each and every day. Can you provide us with some experiences you've had?

What are the pitfalls? What’s the best method of finding such cars? Should one buy from a garage or through private ads? What are the best makes to buy – which ones will last the longest?

Has anyone succeeded in doing this? What’s the highest spec'ed car you’ve ever seen for the smallest amount of money?

Come on guys, give us punters some inside knowledge!

[Toad]

I thought about doing this, but the main problem was that the best deals are large saloon's so you have a minimum of a 2.0 so tax is high also been a "high risk driver" the insurance would have killed me. ideal if you 35 or so, if your younger forget it.

[Sean]

Except for one car, I've been doing this since I started driving and it's great. How does 450 quid sound for a Volvo 740 in good condition? Heated leather seats, central locking, power steering, alloys, elec windows, mirrors, a sunroof, etc... and plenty of grunt (though a bit agriculteral sounding). Only reason I'm not driving the car is because I managed to stick it into a wall a few weeks ago! So, most recent purchase is an Opel Omega - has plenty of power, electrics, sunroof, trip computer, fake wood, etc. This was expensive though - cost over a grand, though it is a '93 car and under 100k miles.

Insurance is less for me than it would be on a newer car - I had one once, a two year old Astra. I didn't like that car. I don't know why I bought it - I must have got swept up in the Celtic tiger mentality or something...I dunno. That car was slow and cramped (compared to an Omega) and lost a fortune in depreciation. Sold it after a year.

If you're doing reasonable miles, fuel economy is okay, insurance is okay (for me and I'm not exactly old at 26). Only killer is the road tax. The Volvo was costing almost 500 quid a year to tax! I'd love a 3 litre BMW or similar, but the thoughts of 850 quid for tax is scary. I wouldn't give much more for the car.

Buy privately, haggle like mad (if they're looking for a grand, offer 500), look at loads of cars, don't worry about age or miles - buy on condition, price spares before buying, do your own servicing and small maintenance. Expect to replace some parts; it's inevitable it might need a clutch, bearings, etc. You'll normally have to stick on a new battery and tyres too.

You might find good cars if you poke around garages. The Omega I got from a main dealer. They had even serviced it and put on a timing belt and exhaust. Other than that, I've always bought privately form the Autotrader, Buy and Sell, etc.

High spec for small money? Asking price of 1200 quid for a '92 Renault 25 at a local main dealer. Car's NCT'd and has new (expensive) tyres. All electrics (working), leather, electric seats with memory, good sound system, talking dashboard (door open, fuel low, etc.) rear passenger ventilation. High spec enough? You'd haggle down indefinately on that car. I didn't buy 'cos I liked the Omega more - tempted though.

I saw a lexus LS400 in an auction pound recently - could have been tempted except for the road tax and complicated looking 4 litre engine (4 cams!) Bet that didn't make much.

[WhipLash]

Jez, Sean, you certainly hold true to this concept!

It’s a pity all right about the car tax situation for 3 litre (or greater!) cars here in Ireland. But I’d also say that’s one reason for even higher depreciation on such cars.

It’s certainly an interesting concept. I’d be interested in following it myself, except for some reservations I’d have.

For example, how does one know exactly how much money/work will be involved in making the car roadworthy/safe/reliable? How do you know that you won’t have to sink a small fortune into the car replacing worn parts? This is even more so for those of us who are not mechanically minded!! I suppose the NCT certificate now makes this job a little easier on the punter.

Also, what type mentality do insurance co.’s have when it comes to insuring old cars? Are they hard to insure?

Any tips on this Sean?

[Sean]

You don't know what's going to go bang on an older car (or a new car for that matter). All you can do is look at everything, check everything over and over and question everything - why the rounded off nut, bit of overspray, loose wires, etc. Expect to see some wear or signs of damage; it's a 10 year old car. For example, the driver's door has been off the Omega at some point and not aligned well when put back on. I got under the car, checked the chassis, A-post, sills, etc. for serious accident damage - the car seems straight, so I don't mind too much that the door's been off.

When you drive a car, feel for looseness in steering, brakes, drivetrain, suspension, etc. Brake hard, accelerate hard, listen for strange noises and smells. Check for damp carpets, lift mats... check everything.

As regards parts, scrapyards are handy! You should distinguish between stuff you need (ignition leads) and stuff that's optional (rear electric window lift). I went a little mad with the Volvo and spent more than was necessary, including window lifts and carpets - though I had planned to keep the car long term.
Really, you don't know what you'll have to spend. I've had the Omega a couple of weeks now and only just noticed I can hear the beginning of a worn clutch, even though it feels okay. It could be 10000 miles before it gives up or it could go next week! It needs a set of tyres soon too, and road tax - there's 150 for a clutch, budget tyres - 150ish, tax 350 - 650 quid! But remember you have to put tyres and tax on all cars!

The NCT gives a little reasurance but won't guarantee, for example, the clutch is okay. Just buy carefully and accept you might have to spend a few quid, or might get stung. I'm no car expert - much of what I know is past experience of driving bangers. Still reckon I'm better off than if I was looking at my new Astra/Golf/Megane depreciating before my eyes.

Insurance can be interesting. My ins. co. will seemingly insure me on anything within reason, probably because I have a good record with them. I've rang other companies and been refused cover because of the engine size to age ratio. Literally told "...that car is too big for you to insure.." Generally, it's not a problem. Like I say, it costs more for me to insure a new car.

So, what are your reservations?

(Got a reasonable Volvo 740 for sale with a spares car if you're interested.)

[WhipLash]

Well I suppose it would have to be the reliability issue. Like what’s next to go in the car, how much it will cost to repair, how long will the car be out of action while being repaired, etc.It the not knowing aspect that I would see as being the main worry.

Also, for someone who's not mechanically minded, its the thought of buying a complete heap'o'sh1te, even if the card looks ok to the human eye. For example, is it better to spend £1,000 on a banger and possibly have more problems than say a newer model for say 2k???

Also, knowing what makes/models will last longest and give least trouble has to have some impact too. What are the best makes when buying old? Volvo? BMW? Merc?

For someone who has never ventured into this territory before, its kinda scarey!!

I have recently updated my car (not a new, but close enough, its a 1 year old), so this might be considered in another year or two. I wouldn't mind a nice big 728 automatic or something similar though! :D

[Sean]

The Volvo 740 lasts very well, parts are plentiful. Mercs are good too but overpriced IMO and parts can be expensive. BMWs are not so good apparantly - they can rust and the autobox can give trouble after about 150k miles = big bill. Japanese cars are very good but can be pricey to fix and the sheet metal can be quite thin so don't take knocks too well. Ford Granada and Opel Omega are good but seem to be abused or neglected more so than 'executive' brands. Audi are nice and solid too, though I'm not a fan of big FWD cars.

I've found that the fewer owners the better with older cars. Fewer owners indicates happy owners. Bigger cars tend to be looked after better than small, many are ex-company cars driven by important management types so are expected to be well minded, serviced, etc. for the first few years of their lives.

Like I said, newer isn't always better. Buy on condition. My Volvo was superficially tatty when I bought it but it had evidence of being well looked after. When I got to cleaning the car up I found a main dealer service history for the first 118k miles under a seat. That's why it was still good when approaching 180k miles. Another car I had, had several owners, lower miles, but had been neglected and showed it at 150k miles.

[WhipLash]

What criteria would you use when calling a car 'nearly new', 'used', and a 'banger'? For example, new=3 years or less, used=older than 3 years, and banger=8 years or older.

Is there a fine line then where a car can be considered 'good value', but is neither a newish car nor an old banger?